-War of 1812 -WWI, WWII -Stalin's purges -Russia vs. Chechnya -Darfur
Now you might argue that Hitler's fascism was a religious-type belief system and that Stalin's purges stem from Communism, an ideology that was essentially a religion replacement. Chechnya and Darfur are purely political when you uncover their roots.
I'd recommend reading Stanton A. Coblentz's Marching Men, which looks into religion's historic role in war. It's primary conclusion is that while religion may motivate pawns and justify the sustainment of war, it is not the root cause.
When it comes down to it, war is about power and greed (and I'd throw self-defense into the 'power' category). Religion is not the cause, but is sometimes used to justify and sustain a conflict.
This even holds true in Islamic conflicts. The suicide bombers blow themselves up out of a sincere (if completely perverted) religious belief. The a-holes sending them to do it are motivated by power, but are using Islam's aggressive doctrines to persuade the little people to fight their battles.
IMO, power and greed are the true causes of war...religion is just a front.
i think wars are fought by working people for the benefit of a few wealthy layabouts. religion is often the kookshow nonsense that gets the sheep to saddle up and grab their ak-47 off the shelf and go kill their brothers.
as an aside, brother sirmize apparently doesn't know much about chechnya nor darfur - but that's an argument for another day.
there is an ideological spectrum which runs between religion, philosophy and politics and it's often difficult for people to differentiate between them. i'm a mormon who doesn't believe in god or organized religion. national socialism was an outgrowth of jain and hindu philosophy. socialism itself, in the words of gramsci, has a mysticism and morality all its own. i believe i use it as such, seeing a *heaven* on earth with *people* as a creator. we're all striving for something greater.
anyway, it's an interesting question, but it's midnight and i've a busy couple of days ahead so i'll leave it there.
Thanks everyone, and it think you're right - religion is generally the excuse given, whereas the motives are usually power and control related.
Brother Gregoire did hit on the direction I wanted to take the discussion though...
there is an ideological spectrum which runs between religion, philosophy and politics
I watched a documentary a year ago which looked at that line. It was both enlightening and scary at the same time. I've been watching it again over the past few weeks as well.
I'm trying to find a way to share the ideas and perhaps the video itself. The tricky part is that due to the subject matter, I'm concerned that some of those who visit here, will get very defensive and thereby miss the point of it. As one friend of mine put it... Only a Christian who is also a complete masochist could watch this.
Just a few off the top of my head:
ReplyDelete-War of 1812
-WWI, WWII
-Stalin's purges
-Russia vs. Chechnya
-Darfur
Now you might argue that Hitler's fascism was a religious-type belief system and that Stalin's purges stem from Communism, an ideology that was essentially a religion replacement. Chechnya and Darfur are purely political when you uncover their roots.
I'd recommend reading Stanton A. Coblentz's Marching Men, which looks into religion's historic role in war. It's primary conclusion is that while religion may motivate pawns and justify the sustainment of war, it is not the root cause.
When it comes down to it, war is about power and greed (and I'd throw self-defense into the 'power' category). Religion is not the cause, but is sometimes used to justify and sustain a conflict.
This even holds true in Islamic conflicts. The suicide bombers blow themselves up out of a sincere (if completely perverted) religious belief. The a-holes sending them to do it are motivated by power, but are using Islam's aggressive doctrines to persuade the little people to fight their battles.
IMO, power and greed are the true causes of war...religion is just a front.
I think religion is often the excuse for war, not the cause.
ReplyDeletei think wars are fought by working people for the benefit of a few wealthy layabouts. religion is often the kookshow nonsense that gets the sheep to saddle up and grab their ak-47 off the shelf and go kill their brothers.
ReplyDeleteas an aside, brother sirmize apparently doesn't know much about chechnya nor darfur - but that's an argument for another day.
there is an ideological spectrum which runs between religion, philosophy and politics and it's often difficult for people to differentiate between them. i'm a mormon who doesn't believe in god or organized religion. national socialism was an outgrowth of jain and hindu philosophy. socialism itself, in the words of gramsci, has a mysticism and morality all its own. i believe i use it as such, seeing a *heaven* on earth with *people* as a creator. we're all striving for something greater.
anyway, it's an interesting question, but it's midnight and i've a busy couple of days ahead so i'll leave it there.
Thanks everyone, and it think you're right - religion is generally the excuse given, whereas the motives are usually power and control related.
ReplyDeleteBrother Gregoire did hit on the direction I wanted to take the discussion though...
there is an ideological spectrum which runs between religion, philosophy and politics
I watched a documentary a year ago which looked at that line. It was both enlightening and scary at the same time. I've been watching it again over the past few weeks as well.
I'm trying to find a way to share the ideas and perhaps the video itself. The tricky part is that due to the subject matter, I'm concerned that some of those who visit here, will get very defensive and thereby miss the point of it. As one friend of mine put it... Only a Christian who is also a complete masochist could watch this.
"as an aside, brother sirmize apparently doesn't know much about chechnya nor darfur - but that's an argument for another day."
ReplyDeleteReally, Gregoire? I'm ready for that argument whenever you are, smarty pants.